| Deposition of Auxiliary Bishop Emeritus Raymond 
            E. GoedertTranscript by BishopAccountability.org of Exhibit 
              5
 [Note from BishopAccountability.org: This is a transcript of Exhibit 
              5 from the Deposition 
                of Auxiliary Bishop Emeritus Raymond E. Goedert. This exhibit is important 
              because it documents an extended conversation in 1987 between Goedert 
              and the mother of an alleged victim of Rev. Robert E. Mayer. The conversation 
              apparently occurred shortly after Goedert became Vicar for Priests, and 
              as the deposition shows, his work as vicar would center around the promotion 
              and subsequent removal of Mayer, who would later be convicted of child 
              abuse that occurred in St. Odilo's parish on Goedert's watch (see Ex. 
                27, for Goedert in 1990 on Mayer's proposed promotion to St. Odilo's). 
              The Mayer crisis would lead to Cardinal Bernardin's Commission and its 
              June 1992 Report. 
              If only Goedert had heeded the advice that he received in 1987 (see below). Redactions in the original PDF are indicated by a note in square brackets. 
              Full names and positions are also provided in square brackets. In the deposition at p. 
              107, there is some discussion about whether the date at the top of 
              this exhibit, Tuesday, November 11, 1986, is an error for November 11, 
              1987. Goedert states that he became Vicar for Priests on July 1, 1987, 
              and in this document, he states that he is the New Vicar for Priests. 
              In the original exhibit, the year 1986 appears to be added in a different 
              hand. One might surmise that whoever added the year made a mistake. However, 
              the author of the document wrote "Tuesday, November 11," and 
              in fact, November 11, 1986 was indeed a Tuesday. But November 11, 1987 
              was a Wednesday. So if the date is in error, the mistake was made by the 
              original author, not by the person who added the year. References in this 
              exhibit appear to correspond to archdiocesan actions taken in 1987, as 
              documented in other exhibits. We link to those exhibits in this transcript.]
 This is a conversation between Father Ray Goedert and [redacted words] 
              when he called her on [redacted word] Tuesday November 11[, 1986 added 
              apparently in another hand] at approximately 11:15 a.m.: Fr. introduced himself a[s] the new Vicar of Priests for the diocese 
              of Chicago, having taken over for Fr. [Thomas F.] Ventura. I asked, "Fr. 
              Ventura's not Vicar anymore?" He said I sounded surprised. I said 
              I was – I hadn't heard there was a change and asked what happened. 
              He explained that a Vicar's appointment lasts four years; Fr. Ventura's 
              term was up last year and he (Fr. Goedert) was then appointed. Fr. Ventura 
              has been on sabbatical in the Holy Land since and is expected to return 
              next week. I told him that I had respect for Fr. Ventura – that 
              he knew how to get things done in that position, and get it done pastorally. Goedert said that the Archdiocese had received a call from James Serritella 
              [attorney for the Archdiocese] – The reason was that Judge O'Brien 
              had called Serritella as an ethical courtesy to notify opposing counsel 
              that he (the judge) and I had ordered transcripts of the settlement hearing 
              in the [Rev. Robert E.] Mayer case. The judge relayed to Serritella upon 
              questioning that he had spoken with me and it seemed I was not satisfied 
              with the settlement and that I [page 2 begins] was concerned that the Archdiocese had not and was not living up to its 
              settlement agreement. Goedert said he met with Serritella yesterday and 
              also with the Cardinal [Bernardin] in separate meetings. I told Goedert that indeed we were never satisfied with the agreement 
              because it had not included any indication that Mayer would receive professional 
              counseling or therapy nor be restricted from contact with young people 
              which were our primary concerns. No one in the Archdiocese would commit 
              that on paper and we never knew what – if anything [–] was 
              being done about his problem. Everyone from [Rev. Kenneth J.] Velo [who 
              moved from the Vice Chancellor post to become Bernardin's Administrative 
              Assistant in 1985] to [Rev. John Richard] Keating [Chancellor until 1983, 
              when he was appointed bishop of the Arlington VA diocese] to the Cardinal 
              told us "trust us" and to just "forgive, forget and go 
              on with your lives." So, I said, there really wasn't much to live 
              up to in the agreement – we got a check for half the attorney's 
              fees and the Cardinal saw us for an hour – simple! The obligations 
              were complete. I told Goedert what I am concerned about, always 
              have been and always will be, is the possibility that Mayer could further 
              harm young people because, as far as I could see from other instances 
              I'd known about at St. Stephen's, Mayer remains unrestricted. I said I 
              had [page 3 begins] visited or called Fr. 
              Ventura a couple of times after the case was settled to report what I 
              was hearing. It was no skin off our nose if the Archdiocese chose to do 
              nothing – our kids were out of it – but I made a promise to 
              the judge, the Cardinal and myself that if this man ever hurt another 
              child, I would be there for that family with our records in hand to support 
              that family. And, I said, I would have to bring my records because the 
              records at Daly Center are pretty spar[s]e. I told Goedert that, for various reasons, I had gone into the Daly Center 
              records and found that many people have been through the file in past 
              years – most recently, an attorney for the Des Plaines Police Department[,] 
              which alarmed me because Mayer's in Des Plaines [at St. Stephen Protomartyr 
              church]. Yes, Goedert said, he'd already spoken with the Chief of Police there 
              to find out what that was about. The chief told Goedert that was prompted 
              by an anonymous call he had received regarding Mayer. The police tried 
              to look into it, but it was anonymous, so it was difficult to investigate 
              or track. [page 4 begins] Other calls that 
              came into the station were only rumors and hearsay, mostly based on his 
              past. [Goedert's dealings with the Des Plaines police are documented in Ex. 
                8.] Goedert said he asked Mayer if he was "doing it" and 
              Mayer said no. Goedert said he told Mayer that he would unfortunately 
              have to live with rumor for the rest of his life because of the case publicity. 
              I commented on three things here: 
              1) "Rumor" – with this man, Mayer, and his kinds of 
                problems the Archdiocese couldn't afford not to investigate 
                any and all rumors. Archdiocesan officials said our incident was rumor, 
                hearsay, irrelevant, couldn't be proven . . . 2) Mayer's denial – he denied our boys' incident too 3) Mayer's "unfortunate" circumstance of having to "live 
                with it" – so do we all, including our boys for whom the 
                Archdiocese did nothing, not even ask how they are. There, you've accomplished quite a bit, Goedert said. Because of you 
              the Archdiocese is treating these cases differently. I've had [page 
                5 begins] to deal with some. The system has changed, he said. Now, 
              the first thing we do is call the family and inquire about the boys, try 
              to get them into counseling. Goedert says he has a case right now where 
              they've offered counseling to the boy. As a matter of fact, Goedert explained, psychs, priests and bishops are 
              meeting in Oakbrook this week to discuss the problem. He said it's like 
              alcoholism 10 years ago – then there was a stigma and nobody wanted 
              to talk about it. This problem always existed, but now it is trying to 
              be understood and taken care of. I said it was nice they were meeting, 
              but one element was still missing – families' input of what happens 
              in these instances. Goedert said he had met with Serritella and the Cardinal to try and find 
              out what he could reveal to me. He said he couldn't tell me results, but 
              that Mayer's been under psychological counseling and is currently undergoing 
              a battery of psychological testing. The Archdiocese is waiting for the 
              psych's recommendations. He said Mayer's under mandate of the Archdiocese, 
              which means that he is not allowed to have unsupervised [page 
                6 begins] contact with minor children. [In fact, the mandate resulted 
              from the Des Plaines complaint, as shown by Ex. 
                10.] But, Goedert said, there's little they can do if children choose 
              to follow him. He said that Goedert had a sort of charisma with young 
              people – they follow him and admire him. There's one young man who 
              is a priest today because of Fr. Mayer. He has nothing but the deepest 
              admiration for him.  I said that of course, children follow him, his "charisma" 
              comes from supplying young people with alcohol and letting them, giving 
              permission for them, to do what their parents don't allow them to do. 
              I said I knew of a specific case at St. Stephen's where his "initiation 
              process" was put into play with one young boy (8th grade) and the 
              family chose to move out of the parish as a result. I had reported this 
              to Fr. Ventura. I told Fr. Goedert that I thought it was nice that Mayer was getting 
              counseling, but this man has major problems which need long-term, in-depth, 
              clinical help. He should not have been put back in a parish, in the same 
              environment – and only miles away where he is accessible to the 
              boys of his previous parishes. His "counseling" sessions [page 
                7 begins] were as ludicrous as lecturing an alcoholic and sitting 
              him back up at a bar and saying, now, don't drink anymore." It doesn't 
              work. Goedert assured me that the pastor [Rev. Leonard T. Mezydlo] is trained 
              in psychology, is aware of Mayer's problems and is observing him. I said 
              I understood that the pastor is ill and resides four floors away from 
              Mayer. [See Ex. 
                10, para. 4.] We spoke some more in general about pedophilia. He said I could be a 
              help to him in this new position of his – and he believed a parent's 
              point of view would be good to have. We set a meeting date for Sat 1:30 
              at [redacted]'s. [Beneath the word meeting, apparently in the same hand 
              as the addition on the first page, is the date 11/15/86.] [unnumbered page 8 begins] [On this mostly blank page, there are two notes hastily written but apparently 
              in the same hand and the account of the conversation with Goedert.]   [word or two redacted] invitation to dinnerTalk about where to meet
   Record Breakfastmtg wt [word or two redacted]
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