The discussions, on a closed online forum to which Exaro was given access by one member, also contain even more stark comments than our revelations last week about halted operations.

The two discussion threads below took place just before Exaro revealed last week other comments on the forum that exposed how police operations were “canned” as they started to expose prominent people, including politicians.

The participants in the two discussions are mostly former Met officers. One exception identifies himself as having worked for “UK gov”, and said that he signed the Official Secrets Act. And another was a firearms instructor in the Met.

Some of the participants in last week’s extracts also took part in these two discussion threads, although there are a further seven former Met officers who joined these later conversations. Exaro has been monitoring the discussions on the forum since July.

Across all the discussion threads published by Exaro, seven participants claim to have direct knowledge of a cover-up of VIP paedophiles. Many others say that they were told by colleagues or do not specify the basis of their claims about closed operations.

We have again used pseudonyms, but given brief descriptions of their careers on first mentions below. 

The extracts are reproduced as written, with a few redactions where indicated. Explanatory additions, where needed, are given in square brackets.

The discussions again include some coarse language, so please be warned.

The online forum is open only to people who have worked for the Met. One member gave Exaro access to the conversations on condition that we did not identify either the forum or any of the people taking part. 

The first of the two conversations below was started by one member who highlights a reference to a comment by Theresa May, home secretary, in Parliament last month that there “might have been a cover-up” over child sex abuse. This is the discussion thread in which former officers agree to compile statements and submit them to the Met commissioner and the inquiry.

Alistair (former police officer who served in the 1980’s): The restraint that living victims have on themselves, from not making outlandish… “fathers for justice” style representations is commendable. Various agencies are having numerous people coming forward.. pointing to the same people, same M.O. time and time again… yet still feet drag as if in lead divers boots from the truth being revealed.

Jonathan (says that he worked for “UK gov” and signed the Official Secrets Act; does not state the agency for which he worked): Retired police officers who served on the operations that led to the uncovering of high profile people and that were closed down are still alive and they know who they are just ask them.

…

Alistair: Good point Jonathan.. One colleague now retired privy to this stuff was very scared to reveal names… and he was no shrinking violet then or now.

Stevie (former detective constable in the Met): Jonathan

I’m one of those guys. I rang SCD 5 [the Met’s Child Abuse Investigation Command] two years ago as a serving DC [detective constable] to pass on a lead and information and NO ONE ever called me back. Shocking!!!

Alistair: will you be disclosing it here or at a later date Stevie?

…

Neil (recently retired as a Met officer after more than 30 years of service): It is totally unbelievable, immense cover up. The worse thing is they not only say it with a straight face but they expect people to believe it. Or they have that much contempt that they don’t care

Suzi (former Met intelligence officer): Allegations like this always come back and bite those who are accused in the arse – so anyone in their right mind (and therein probably lies the problem – we are talking about politicians after all) would keep copies… just in case! To say that the fate of the original documents involved someone saying, ‘Oops – wasn’t I supposed to shred that?!’ is just ridiculous! Pretty sure there’s no ‘MIGHT have been’ about it – there WAS a cover up!

Jonathan: My MP is one of those mentioned in the… so I can’t ask his advice but do we really think the official secrets act which we all signed was designed for the purpose of protecting high profile people who are implicated in child abuse, perhaps the Home secretary can help

…

Rob (former detective constable in the Met, who is understood to have been in the diplomatic protection group in the 1980’s): Stevie… snap. I arrested a senior executive of [named London borough council] for various sexual offences concerning a 14 year old girl. His name is [named former council executive]. (It’s on the web). He ended up getting 4 1/2 years. [Named former council executive] had a who’s who list of senior police officers and MPs and telephone numbers. He always had an invite to the SB [Special Branch] Christmas Party. (I kept copies of all my notes and statements). After the job I got a phone call from [identified source] to say a male had attended [named former council executive]’s H/A [home address] and given his wife £1000. She was to receive the same amount each month while hubby was away. No doubt [named ex-council executive] had ‘like’ friends. I did a file and took it by hand and placed it in a SCD 5 DS’s [detective sergeant’s] hand. What became of it I never knew. It was either so perfect and had everything in it that they didn’t need to contact me again or it was buried… I too am on the ‘it sickens me list’.

Derek (was in Special Branch for 28 years): Jonathan has nailed it when he refers to the retired police officers’ knowledge of these events. But – are there any records in what was General Registry?

Jonathan: What do you think would happen if retired officers and others pooled their knowledge and presented the findings (copies only) to whoever is going to be the next chairperson [of the overarching inquiry into child sex abuse]. Did you notice how PC I was.

Stevie: Alistair.. If I had any faith in it being actioned of course I would

Alistair: Understood Stevie. This matter is gathering momentum. I feel you would be there to give evidence, as would many other current and ex serving officers, were the numerous victims to have their day in court. There must be a mass of material witnesses, jumbled like a jigsaw. It needs putting together to nail these swines.

Stevie: I personally don’t have time to organise but I would certainly provide a statement as part of a larger dossier to be submitted

Jim (ex-Met officer, served for 30 years, mainly uniform, but also spent a couple of years in CID): Stevie I think this is what is needed. Happy to organise it. Suggest we get the statements written. Is there any serving officer able to send me a blank MG11 [witness statement].

[A retired detective inspector posts a link to a PDF of a blank MG11]

Jim: Cheers…

…

Rob: Is it me or can anyone else hear the music from ‘Jaws’? The noose duth [sic] tighten.

…

Jim: Jonathan I agree with handing it to the next chair person, but I also think we should hand a copy to the commissioner.

Jim: Email completed statements to [identified e-mail address]. Appreciate its not a [sic] secure but I figure the people we are up against can read everything anyway.

Dave (former surveillance officer, also served in territorial support group): Well there’s a surprise! The rotten b****rds would have hung out any hard working, tax paying citizen to dry for anything no where near as bad as this terrible allegation. It’s a f**king disgrace how these people behave. No apologies for swearing, this is a f**king disgrace. I’m f**king livid at the moment…. Edited beer involved [meaning that Dave edited his comment after posting it to insert asterisks into the swear words], sentiments the same.. B*****ds

Mike (retired firearms instructor in the Met): Great idea Jim. Don’t forget to keep a copy though! As it will probably go (missing) when you hand it all over.

Mike: Another suggestion which I have heard forwarded is to obtain the Whips information, Book, which could (ALLEDGEDLY [sic]) contain all sorts of interesting and useful (to the interests of justice) information?) bearing in mind that apparently the end justifies the means. As in the government listening into and recording communications between clients and their legal representatives. Please feel free to arrange these words “Ass Back Bite Return To”

Jim: Mike indeed, whips books I’m surprised that one of the ops looking into the allegations hasn’t stepped in to obtain a warrant to seize them. But then again I’m surprised no one has approached these ex officers on the jobs that were stopped.

One of the participants starts the second conversation by posting Exaro’s story in the Sunday People that revealed how the Met was investigating allegations that three boys were murdered by the ‘Westminster paedophile network’, including the strangling to death of one by a Conservative MP.

The allegations were prompted by a key witness, known as ‘Nick’, who spoke to the police after talking to Exaro. Nick also alleges that MPs and other prominent people sexually abused him as a boy and others at Dolphin Square, an apartment block near Parliament, and elsewhere.

In this discussion thread, former police officers make the most startling comments about how police operations on paedophiles were pulled.

One ex-detective refers to Prime Suspect, the police drama written by Lynda La Plante. He makes an apparent reference to a series about a child murder and a sinister link to the police.

They also mention the case of Jason Swift, the 14-year-old boy who was gang-raped and killed by a ring of four men led by Sidney Cook, the notorious paedophile. They killed the teenager in Hackney, east London in 1985 and were all jailed for manslaughter.

The gang included Leslie Bayley, who was murdered in prison in 1993.

One serving officer on the forum also mentions Lee Boxell, who went missing as a 15-year-old, 26 years ago. He never turned up, and no body has been found. Four people were arrested earlier this year in connection with his disappearance, and are due to answer police bail next March.

Participants in the discussion talk about ‘Operation Circus’, which carried out surveillance from 1986 of a place in central London that was notorious for men to pick up underage boys for sex – the so-called “meat rack” at Piccadilly Circus.

In addition, they also discuss ‘Operation Hedgerow’. It sprang out of Operation Circus and carried out surveillance from 1987 to 1989 on a paedophile ring that operated within the London boroughs of Brent and Ealing. Operation Hedgerow led to 20 arrests and 14 convictions. 

And they mention ‘Operation Orchid’, which was closely related to Hedgerow and investigated Cooke’s gang.

One retired inspector refers to Dolphin Square, a favoured London home for celebrities and spies as well as politicians.

Dolphin Square’s Village Magazine boasts about the dark intrigue of the complex. Under a section headed, “The secret residents of Dolphin Square,” it says: “With its close distance to Westminster, it is no wonder that Dolphin Square has been home to the likes of politicians and stars. 

“But what you may not have known is that the square has also been home to a number of spies.”

It lists some notorious tenants, adding: “Another tenant, John Vassall – an admiralty clerk, was exposed as a Soviet spy in 1962 and arrested at his Dolphin Square flat.

“It went almost unnoticed that Vassall was spending £10 a week on his flat in Dolphin Square whilst earning £14 a week.”

But first, former officers discuss the Exaro story about the alleged murder of boys by the ‘Westminster paedophile network’.

Suzi: So much more to come out…. they say power corrupts…. this goes beyond all things words can describe! Shame a lot of the suspects are now dead… and a shame the death sentence was repealed!

…

Rod (former detective constable in the Met, served for more than 30 years and worked on cases of human trafficking): So the rumours that were circulating in the early 90’s may be true.

It sounds the drama Linda LePlant [sic] wrote, Prime Suspect 2 or 3.

Andrew (retired inspector, served in the Met for 30 years): Remember hearing a story from a [colleague] about an MP. Did not believe it was true, not so sure now

…

Stevie: Shocking. I hope no stone unturned in this

Phil (former or serving Met officer, nothing else known about his career): I bet all the evidence has been shredded… just saying!

Matthew (ex-Met sergeant, left three years ago after 33 years’ service): This must be the same or linked to the operation… in the 80s – there was a book written about it I read 20 odd years ago when I served with [named officer]. The boy that was run over was alleged to be Jason Swift. There were a couple of paedophiles convicted – Sidney Cooke and Lesley Bailey but it was believed the operation (linked later to op Circus) was halted by command from on high when VIPs began emerging into the spotlight.

Stevie: Yes!!! They killed him in the Kingsmead estate Hackney The ring went all the way to the House of Commons.. Allegedly

Matthew: Operation Orchid…. That was the operation but can’t for the life of me remember the book title

….

Andrew: we did house to house near East Street market. About the only time ALL the locals would speak to us

….

Matthew: … I’d be amazed if this latest set of vip revelations is not linked back to this and circus

…

Matthew: … I was on a surveillance team in about 88/89 following Barristers, solicitors, a Police Officer and a Magistrate all involved with kids (I can’t remember the operation name at the moment) but it got suddenly and abruptly halted and no prosecutions ever resulted from the Intel we gathered …... Strange that ….

Dave: I remember the team telling me about that Matthew, a glass table involved I think…?

Matthew: A specially converted toilet that one could lay underneath face up…. I’ve watched nicer things through binoculars I must say….

Rob: So was I Matthew. “The Operation is cancelled.” Was the order by the Commander to our Superintendent. This, the day before the raids… Met wide. When asked why the reason given was “Because I’m a Commander… that’s why.”

Matthew: Ironically about a year later I saw one of the targets (who had disappeared during the op) [a police officer] in Amsterdam standing in front of me with a boy of about 13 near Dam Square. I passed the info on but was told it was no longer a concern! – I should have pushed him under a tram when the opportunity first arose!! The Police Officer [who was the “target”] was from [named police station] I remember – he wore a long black leather coat all the time – sinister bastard he was….

Dave: I thought I was right… Dirty fuckers.

Jim: Matthew was it [named police officer]?

Jim: If it was he did get nicked at some stage

Terry: Operation Hedgerow Matthew

Matthew: It may have been Jim – yes Terry that was it “Hedgerow” we watched one guy from the MI5 building on Piccadilly that didn’t exist

Matthew: Did [named police officer] have blonde hair Jim?

Andrew: Dolphin Square has many MPs and has had for a long time. It is a bit run down now. Vassal was nicked there and a few other dodgy people. We all know the Establishment will close ranks and with the Official Secrets Act we are buggered so to speak

Jim: [different colour hair], but he was into Nazi uniforms, so long leather coat wouldn’t have been out of place. He lived Pimlico in a flat near Pimlico tube.

Matthew: That’s him – I remember the Nazi fixation

Terry: Matthew the best quote I remember from “Hedgerow” – No names please – “fuck me he’s got bollocks like scatter cushions”

Matthew: We wondered how he got around that flat without a wheelbarrow …

Jim: He was on my relief, did youth work might have been scouts, when he got nicked the word was that he was even up to it on duty somewhere near Horseferry Road.

Jim: and he frequented Piccadilly Circus….

Matthew: Nasty fucker – I remember him from when I was at [another named police station].

June (uniformed sergeant in Met, still serving): Lee Boxall [sic]. I always wonder if he ended up like poor Jason Swift. Around the same era, seemed to vanish without trace.

If you have information that might help our investigation into child sex abuse, please contact us. Keep re-visiting Exaro for more on this investigation. 

LIST OF PREVIOUS RELEVANT PIECES: Child sex abuse, ‘Fernbridge’ and ‘Fairbank’: Exaro story thread