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George Pell testifies from Rome for abuse royal commission
By Jacquelin Magnay
[with video] Cardinal George Pell has been giving evidence to the child abuse royal commission for the third time. The cardinal, who was too ill to return to Australia for questioning, testified via videolink from the Hotel Quirinale in Rome in front of a group of survivors from Ballarat. Here’s how today unfolded, with updates from Jacquelin Magnay in Rome and John Lyons and Dan Box at The Royal Commission in Sydney. 12.00pm: Hearing adjourned Cardinal Pell will resume giving evidence tomorrow. 11.30am: Pell never heard ‘bum buddies’ term The term “bum buddies” never came to the attention of Cardinal George Pell in reference to a Christian Brother who was later jailed for abusing 31 boys. The Cardinal was answering questions about his time as a priest in the Ballarat East parish in Victoria from 1973 to 1994 when he was also the episcopal vicar for education in the diocese. In a video link from Rome the Cardinal has repeatedly told the Royal commission into child sexual abuse that he could not recall detail of exactly who told him what about problems at the local Christian Brothers school, St Patrick’s College. He said he remembered being told of one brother who was kissing boys but said he never heard the ‘bum buddies’ term, which one witness, a former student at the school, has told the commission was used openly about boys who were abused by Brother Ted Dowlan. Dr Pell agreed the term would certainly suggest sexual abuse. The high-profile cleric was living at the presbytery with four or five other priests in Ballarat East at the time when concerns were raised by parents and some church workers about the behaviour of brothers at the St Alipius primary school and St Patrick’s College. The brother who was kissing boys was Brother Gerald Fitzgerald, who has since died. Cardinal Pell said there was talk of the eccentricity of Br Fitzgerald. It was common knowledge that he gave boys a kiss when he was leaving. “The general idea was it was harmless enough,” said Cardinal Pell. He said it was discussed and mentioned to him by parish friends but “no-one said we should do anything about it.” The Cardinal said he had little to do with the Christian Brothers school because they ran their own operation. His involvement in Ballarat East was mostly limited to saying three masses at the weekend. He was also studying at Monash. He would attend speech nights at the school and that was the primary reason he has contact with the then principal. Counsel for the commission Gail Furness, SC referred him to the evidence of Tim Green who at a previous hearing said it was common knowledge among the boys at St Patrick’s that Dowlan was touching kids. Cardinal Pell said that he did recall a St Patrick’s boy talking to him about Br Dowlan but nothing of the nature of Mr Green’s allegations came to his attention. “Nothing as generalised or as gross (widespread) as that”. Cardinal Pell said he heard when Dowlan left the school but had no recollection of where he went. When asked by Ms Furness if he drew the conclusion that Dowlan left because of sexual impropriety with minors, Cardinal Pell answered that he never knew the nature of what happened “whether they were indiscretions or crimes”. AAP ... Reponse from David Ridsdale of the Ballarat survivors group: “There were some statements that were certainly more constructive than previous. In saying that there was careful selection of words and the careful manner it was discussed.’’ Ridsdale said the revelation that Pell was aware Father Fitzgerald like kissing boys was strange. “To (say someone likes) kissing boys as being eccentric strikes us as being more than eccentric, its creepy at the very least.” “Some of the people he said he didn’t know doesn’t fit with well our memories, I know his comment he was hardly around a (Ballarat) school does not fit well with our memories.’’ 11.03am: Ridsdale case a ‘catastrophe’ The way a Victorian bishop dealt with paedophile priest Gerald Francis Ridsdale was a catastrophe for both victims and the church, Cardinal George Pell says. Former Ballarat Bishop Ronald Mulkearns knew in 1975 Ridsdale had abused boys, but moved him between parishes and did not suspend his priestly faculties until 13 years later. “The way he was dealt with that was a catastrophe, a catastrophe for the victims and a catastrophe for the church,” Cardinal Pell told the child abuse royal commission from Rome. “If effective action had been taken earlier an enormous amount of suffering would have been avoided. “He simply gave him chance after chance after chance, shifted him around and initially at least trusted excessively in the possible benefits of psychological help.” The first time Ridsdale was being treated for anxiety caused by the possibility of being charged by police, the inquiry has heard. Cardinal Pell said he was not aware of priests being sent for treatment for sexual offending in the 1970s and early 1980s by Bishop Mulkearns. Cardinal Pell was a Ballarat priest and one of the advisers to Bishop Mulkearns, the 1971-1997 Ballarat bishop. He said he did not know of anyone else in the church hierarchy who knew about Ridsdale’s offending at the time. “I did not know that Mulkearns knew let alone anybody else.” The commission has heard Mulkearns destroyed documents from Ridsdale’s file relating to his treatment, which Cardinal Pell said was unacceptable. Ridsdale has been jailed for abusing 53 children but is the subject of 78 abuse claims to the diocese. It is believed Ridsdale abused at least 1000 children across the western districts of Victoria, victims’ advocacy group Broken Rites has said. AAP 10.05am: Case for Mulkearns inquiry There is a case for a judicial tribunal to consider how Bishop Ronald Mulkearns handled clergy accused of child sexual abuse, Cardinal George Pell says. In evidence via videolink from Rome, Dr Pell said he could not give “book, chapter and verse” about what Bishop Mulkearns knew and did not act upon at particular times. Bishop Mulkearns, who is now in his 80s and dying of cancer, was bishop in Ballarat, Victoria, from 1971 to 1997. Dr Pell said there was a purpose to the way Bishop Mulkearns dealt with Gerald Ridsdale and other alleged paedophile priests. A church-run judicial inquiry could consider how a bishop had handled sex abuse cases, he said. He was asked by Gail Furness, SC advising the commission if he considered it appropriate for such a tribunal to consider the case of Bishop Mulkearns. Dr Pell: “Yes there would certainly be a prime facie case. Yes.” However it would not be appropriate for him as a Vatican official to put forward a name to that tribunal, he told the child abuse royal commission. Cardinal Pell was a Ballarat priest and one of the advisers to Bishop Mulkearns, who the commission has heard knew about paedophile priest Gerald Ridsdale in 1975 and moved him between parishes. Cardinal Pell said there was never any suggestion that, officially at any rate, sex abuse accusations should be rejected out of hand. Bishop Mulkearns’ handling of Ridsdale was “a catastrophe for the victims and a catastrophe for the church”, he said. Cardinal Pell said Bishop Mulkearns “trusted excessively in the possible benefits of psychological help”. He said Ridsdale “in at least one case was being treated for anxiety”. Ms Furness asked: “He was anxious because he was going to be charged in relation to his paedophilia, wasn’t he?” 10am: ‘I believed priest denials, not gossip’ The hearing resumes and discussion moves to Monsigneur John Day. Cardinal George Pell says he would have believed a priest who denied sexually abusing children in the early 1970s. Cardinal Pell said it was a great scandal when Monsignor Day was accused in 1971 and 1972 of indecently assaulting children while the parish priest in Mildura. Cardinal Pell, who as an assistant priest in the Swan Hill parish at the time, said he heard some gossip about Monsignor Day being accused of some sort of paedophilia activity. “I must say in those days if a priest denied such activity I was very strongly inclined to accept the denial,” Cardinal Pell told the child abuse royal commission from Rome. Cardinal Pell, who was overseas from 1963 until 1971, said the gossip he heard likely came from fellow priests. He said Monsignor Day had a strong body of supporters, mainly among parishioners. “There was discussion in the Catholic community and more widely around Mildura, that’s for sure,” he said. The commission has heard former Victorian policeman Denis Ryan’s attempts to investigate the child sex abuse claims against Monsignor Day were stymied by both the church and other police officers. Monsignor Day was not charged after the 1971-1972 allegations. Fifteen people have told the church they were sexually abused as children by Monsignor Day between 1954 and 1973. All the claims were made after his death. The commission has previously heard a teacher and a police officer wrote to the former Bishop of Ballarat Ronald Mulkearns about Monsignor Day’s “alarming” 13-year history of child abuse. The letter by a former teacher at St Joseph’s College in Mildura, John Howden, and police officer Denis Ryan in late 1971 warned a parent had complained about the priest. “Investigations ... revealed widespread moral misconduct over a period of 13 years,” said the letter, which included the names of seven victims. Mr Howden was confronted by a parent about Day’s abuse during Christmas drinks, the commission heard. “You’re a weak-kneed bastard. Why haven’t you done anything about this criminal,” Mr Howden said of the incident in a statement read to the commission. Cardinal Pell said he did not know of Day’s abuse until after a 1972 newspaper article which came out after the Monsignor’s resignation from the Mildura parish. Cardinal Pell was then a priest in the Ballarat parish of Swan Hill - about 200km from Mildura - and said in 1971 he was not aware of any Swan Hill parishioners complaining about Day. “I can’t remember any lay person mentioning it to me but they might have,” he said on Monday. Cardinal Pell said he “very rarely indulged” in discussions about the sexual proclivities of other priests. He said he would have discussed the matter with priests after the newspaper article was published. He agreed that in January 1972, before the article came out, “quite a few people” in Mildura had suspicions or knew about Monsignor Day’s behaviour but “not many at all” knew in Swan Hill. The parishes were 200km apart and “it’s not surprising that there was much less gossip in Swan Hill than there was in Mildura”, he said. Day was assigned to a new parish, Timboon, a year after his resignation in 1972 after police spoke to Bishop Mulkearns. AAP 9.52am: Pell’s people not involved in scuffle Italian police and not Cardinal George Pell’s security staff were involved in a scuffle with media (see video below and post at 6.27am) outside the hotel where he is giving evidence, the cardinal’s office says. Reporters on the scene say Cardinal Pell’s security team was heavy-handed, pushing camera crews aside as he entered the building. 9.30am: Hearing break The hearing has stopped for a break after 90 minutes of evidence. It’s due to sit for at least four hours for three to four days. Here’s what you’ve missed... “To be helpful but vague’’. “To remain in control’’. That is the strawpoll view about Cardinal George Pell’s evidence in the Hotel Quirinale during the first short break. Cardinal Pell has been keen to show he abhors the sexual abuse of children in the children and admits to failures in dealing with it. But on nearly every point when pressed for specific recollections, his critics say Cardinal Pell qualifies his answers “to the best of my recollection’’ , “I don’t have any such clear recollection’’, “it was 40 years ago’’. One of the abuse survivors told The Australian that Cardinal Pell likes to elaborate when he knows he is on safe ground. The survivor said: “When the commission delves a bit deeper he tries to deflect’’. But the view in the coffee room among his Church supporters, many wearing their clerical collars, was that Cardinal Pell was giving a strident defence of the Church and offering helpful explanations about the church’s processes. In the break at least, the survivors and church officials mingled in close proximity, but upon entering the evidence room, a team of eight hotel and Vatican security officials form a tight circle of protection around the Cardinal. As expected for such a high ranking Vatican official, Cardinal Pell has come out strongly for the church, saying the centuries old problems faced by the church were not structural but were instead personal failures. He has even admitted the obvious: that views held in the 1970s and 1980s in Ballarat in relation to disclosures of child sexual abuse were “generally to not believe the child.’’ But when quizzed about his time in Ballarat and whether anybody had approached him to complain about a difficulty with teachers or them being overly affectionate or in some way touching them he said: “It’s a long time ago I cant remember such complaints, they are normally addressed to the education office not to the vicar.’’ When pressed if any were brought to his attention, he said: “I can’t remember any such examples, my memory might be playing me false. Because I don’t have perfect recall.’’ He was pressed again. So it may have happened? He replied: “I think you are putting words into my mouth. I don’t remember any such thing happening, don’t believe it happened, but sometimes my memory fails me.’’ 9.20am: Pell will meet victims in Rome 9.15am: Pell rips into Bishop Mulkearns Cardinal George Pell has ripped into his former church leader Bishop Mulkearns, claiming the way he personally had dealt with paedophiles such as Gerard Ridsale was “a catastrophe for the victims”. He said if “effective action had been taken earlier’’ an enormous amount of suffering would have been avoided. Cardinal Pell said: “He (Mulkearns) gave him (Ridsdale) chance after chance after chance, he shifted him around and, initially at least, trusted excessively in the possible benefits of psychological help.’’ This is the second time this morning Cardinal Pell has mentioned the overt reliance on psychiatric and psychological counselling within the Church to deal with sexual problems of priests. He admitted that “a number of cases’’ were not reported to civil authorities and the general practice was not to report allegations to police. When asked if sexual abuse of children was seen as a moral sin or failing rather than a crime, Cardinal Pell said:’’ it is certainly in every age remains as a moral failure and as a sin, it is also a crime’’. He added: “and one element that contributed to the catastrophic treatment, it was well intended but over-estimated what could be done, was the psychiatric and psychological treatment.’’ 9.01am: ‘Original sin is alive and well’ Counsel assisting the commission Gail Furness SC said many inquiries around the world had found those in senior church positions did not take action that a reasonable person thought should have been taken over child abuse allegations. Cardinal Pell blamed the failure to act on personal faults rather than the church’s structure. “I think the faults overwhelmingly have been more personal faults, personal failures, rather than structures,” he said. Asked to explain why the Catholic Church had operated in such a similar way across the world, Cardinal Pell said “unfortunately original sin is alive and well” and the church follows the patterns of society. Cardinal Pell said there was a predisposition not to believe children complaining about abuse around the late 1980s and agreed the instinct was to protect the church from shame. AAP 8.30am: ‘Church has mucked things up’ Cardinal Pell, under questioning, said child sex abuse had been an issue for centuries. “The church has made enormous mistakes and is working to remedy those but the church in many places, certainly in Australia, has mucked things up, has let people down,” he said. “I’m not here to defend the indefensible.” He said the church in Australia had put in place procedures 20 years ago, namely the Melbourne Response and Towards Healing. He said the problems in the church was not down to a “few bad apples” or the structure of the church. “I think the faults overwhelmingly have been more personal faults, personal failures rather than structures,” “Let me remind you that the reforms in ‘96/ ‘97 occurred within the old structures.” He’s detailed his role at the Vatican, describing it as “something equivalent to a treasurer” but would not concur that he held the third most senior position in the church. “I wouldn’t say it was. People like to make these hypothetical lists. Some people would see the financial affairs of the Vatican as very low on the list,” he said. “I’m a senior official in the Roman curia.” He was then asked about financing of compensation for victims of clergy abuse. He said he had given advice, as one of the nine cardinals on an informal council advising the pope, prior to the establishment of the pontifical commission for the protection of minors in March 2014. Cardinal Pell said he had studied the royal commission’s report on redress for survivors. “I would like to see a national system of redress which could be accessed by the churches and one in which the culpable parties would contribute to the payment of whatever the findings were,” he said. “It would clearly show that such payments are not dependent on the decisions of the Catholic Church. “No matter how fair and independent an agency funded by the church might be, there’s always the danger that it will be found to be subservient.” The commission then began discussing his life and career in Ballarat. 8.07am: Pell begins testimony Cardinal George Pell has arrived in the Verdi Room of the Hotel Quirinale. He walked across the front of the room where clergy abuse survivors were sitting without any acknowledgment and sat impassively waiting for the video link to open up to the Royal Commission sitting in Sydney. While his biography is being read out he stares straight ahead at the large television screen positioned just in front of him. 7.55am: Verdi Room full I am inside the Verdi Room at the Hotel Quirinale and it is already full, reports Jacquelin Magnay. Several priests are standing alongside the walls, looking very prominent. Everyone just chatting at the moment. Cardinal Pell will give his evidence in an area at the front of the room. He will have his own large TV screen to be able to watch the royal commission in Sydney. Adjacent to him in Rome will be one of his lawyers, although his barrister is back in Sydney. All of the questioning of Cardinal Pell will occur from Sydney - there will be no cross examination from anyone in Rome. 7.33am: Abuse survivors speak out A large group of clergy survivors, many wearing red t shirts proclaiming ‘No More Silence’ called for Cardinal Pell to give extensive and truthful evidence to the royal Commission this morning. One of the spokespeople for the Ballarat survivors David Ridsdale said outside the Hotel Quirinale: “ We need the hierarchy of the Vatican to stand up and take responsibility and not hide behind legal processes. Please, we don’t want to see survivors in 50 years; we want to be the last survivors.” Another survivor was wearing an orange ribbon and urged everyone to tie a ribbon in acknowledgment of the abuse suffered by children at the hands of the Church. Mr Ridsdale, the nephew of notorious paedophile Gerard Ridsdale, a close friend of Cardinal Pells, said Cardinal Pell’s tying of a ribbon at the Vatican was “ interesting timing”. Earlier a group of cardinals entered the hotel to support Cardinal Pell. 6.27am: Camera crew assaulted A media camera crew was assaulted and a journalist punched in the stomach in an intense confrontation during the early Royal Commission arrival of Cardinal George Pell this morning. Italian police were reviewing footage of the incident after the Channel Nine crew claimed to have been manhandled by Pell’s security and SBS reporter Brett Mason said he was punched. The media had staked out all entrances to the Hotel Quirinale including the back. Pell’s private security detail immediately swooped onto the public street and approached the media who were more than five metres away. The police were yet to make a decision about whether to lay charges. 5.46am: Pell arrives Cardinal George Pell has arrived three hours early at the Hotel Quirinale hoping to avoid the media spotlight by entering through the back of the hotel. But his entrance was captured by a camera crew that was manhandled by Cardinal Pell’s security detail. The cameraman is currently in the process of lodging an official complaint about the heavy-handed protection. Cardinal Pell, 74, didn’t say anything and appeared grim-faced as he walked through the inner garden of the hotel and was spirited away to a suite on the upper floors of the plush hotel to prepare to give evidence in the coming hours. But the security detail was missing earlier in the day when the sexual assault victims who had travelled from Australia gave a press conference at the front of the same hotel. One of the parents found that her wallet had been stolen during the tightly packed melee. 4.29am: Has Pell dodged media? Television crews and photographers have scouted out the entrances of the Quirinale but Cardinal Pell may have given them the slip. One international media outlet believes Cardinal Pell is already in the hotel, having booked in and will thus avoid having to enter and leave the hotel under the glare of broadcast spotlights. Time will tell. But the group of survivors will be en mass, arriving at the hotel hearing room together about 9.30pm local time. In the meantime the hotel is hosting a wedding - the bride in virginal white and the bridesmaids in lacy black. 2.19am: Pell due to arrive Heavy rain has continued to blanket Rome, a portent for the black atmosphere inside the Hotel Quirinale where Cardinal George Pell is due to arrive soon to beginning giving hours of evidence to the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses into Child Sexual Abuse. Cardinal Pell has remained in his Vatican rooms for much of the day, skipping his usual Sunday mass at the magnificent Domus Australia to prepare for what is expected to be a gruelling inquisition about his time as an auxiliary bishop and when he shared a house in Ballarat with Australia’s most prolific paedophile Gerard Ridsdale. The commission is expected to question Cardinal Pell about his early years as a priest, but not about the startling allegations that Victorian Police have been investigating allegations of multiple offences involving him and between five and 10 boys over four decades. A few hours ago Cardinal Pell’s sister Margaret emerged from her brother’s residence, just a stone’s throw from where Pope Francis gave his Sunday address at midday, saying her brother was resting and preparing. But all day Sunday Cardinal Pell was very much in the thoughts of the small congregation and clearly front of mind among senior clergy of the Catholic Church. Reverend Terence Bell twice mentioned Pell by name during his delivery of Sunday mass at the Domus which is situated in the middle of Rome, the heartland of the Catholic Church. Reverend Bell said in his opening address that he prayed for Cardinal Pell. Then during the prayers he alluded to the battering the church has received in light of the clergy sexual abuse. He said:” we pray especially for Cardinal Pell, and in particular the future of the Church. The truth will set us free, we must look forward not back.” But only five people were at the Domus mass to hear and give the prayers for Cardinal Pell. Outside the church, several coloured ribbons had been tied to the window grates, but it was unknown if this was in support of Loud Fence, the support group that has encouraged ribbons on church property to acknowledge the victims of child sexual abuse. At least 15 survivors and supporters as well as some counsellors will be in the Verdi Room of the Hotel Quirinale to hear his evidence. Cardinal Pell is expected to have at least as many Vatican officials and clergy supporting him during the late night-early morning hearing. Chrissie and Anthony Foster are two people attending the hearing and pleaded for Cardinal Pell to tell the truth. Two of the Fosters’ daughters were abused by paedophile priest Kevin O’Donnell and one ended up committing suicide. “Tell the truth, tell the truth, be honest, be a man and do what you should have done a long time ago,’’ Mrs Foster said. Heavy security has been imposed on the venue and surrounding streets including armed military.
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