8 things Dr. Larry Nassar told MSU investigator in sex-abuse case

By Julie Mack
MLive
March 27, 2017

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/03/5_things_we_learned_from_msu_i.html

Larry Nassar appears in the 55th District Court on Feb. 17, 2017. He is charged with three first degree criminal sexual conduct charges for allegedly sexually assaulting a young friend of his family's. Photo by Emily Lawler

Dr. Larry Nassar, a former Michigan State University sports medicine doctor, has been in the news since September 2016 when former patients first began accusing him of sexual abuse.

Neither Nassar, nor his attorney, have commented on the allegations. But a document released this week sheds some light what Nassar may have told investigators. 

That document is a 28-page report from Michigan State University's Office of Institutional Equity, and summarizes a Title IX investigation into a complaint filed by Rachael Denhollander, the first woman to go public with allegations against Nassar.

The report, which says a "preponderance of evidence" supports Denhollander's accusations, includes a lengthy summary of the investigator's Sept. 8 interview with Nassar, who was fired two week after the interview.

Nassar is currently in federal custody on child-pornography charges, and also has been charged with 25 counts of first-degree criminal sexual conduct involving 10 women, nine of whom are former patients.

Below are eight excerpts pulled from the report.

1. Nassar denied doing intravaginal procedures.

From the report: "The Respondent said he does not use gloves because he does not go into the vaginal or rectal orifices; he is working on the pelvic floor externally. .. The only time he goes 'inside' is if he's doing a coccyx manipulation, where he would insert a finger into the rectal opening."

Why it's interesting: More than 100 women have filed lawsuits or notices of intent to file a suit, and nearly all of the women say that Nassar's treatments included extended digital penetration of their vagina and, in some cases, their anus.

Also in the report is an interview with Dr. Steve Karageanes, a Detroit-area osteopathic doctor who also treats patients with manual manipulation. Based on his discussions with Nassar, Karageanes said that it was his understanding that Nassar did not do intravaginal procedures. Karageanes also said such a procedure would be "hard to justify to a 14-year-old girl."

2. Nassar said not using gloves made it easier for him to provide treatment.

From the report: "The Respondent said when working on the pelvic floor he prefers going skin-on-skin because he is feeling for response from the tissue. The Respondent said he has to find the right amount of force to relieve the pain. The Respondent said patients have never asked him to use gloves."

Why it's interesting: The lawsuits consistently cite allegations that Nassar failed to use gloves during vaginal or anal penetration, and some women allege they had infections or other health issues related to Nassar not using gloves.

3. Nassar on getting consent from patients.

From the report: "The Respondent said that when he's doing an evaluation, he will talk about vector forces and explain, 'I'm going to put pressure here" ... and a lot of time he will say, 'It will feel like a hand wedgie.' The Respondent said he is explain as he's doing the treatment. The Respondent said that unless the patient stops him, he is assuming the patient understands. The Respondent said he does not get written consent from the patient before treatment. The Respondent said many times where there is someone in the room because the clinic is a teaching facility. .... The Respondent said whenever the patient is a minor, there is a parent in the room."

Why it's interesting: A consistent theme in the lawsuits is that Nassar failed to explain or get consent for intravaginal or anal procedures. And while numerous plaintiffs say that a parent or other third party was in the exam room, parents say that Nassar did not get their consent for the procedures.

4. Nassar on massaging patients' breasts.

From the report: "The Respondent said he did not massage the Claimant's breasts. The Respondent said sometimes he stretches the thoracic spine and has to go under the clothes and lift the breast tissue up. ... The Respondent said he has to go skin-on-skin to feel the tissue."

Why it's interesting: A number of plaintiffs say that in addition to vaginal and anal penetration, Nassar massaged or touched their breasts.

5. Nassar about being sexually aroused while treating patients.

From the report: "The Respondent said he would not have an erection while treating a patient. The Respondent said that would be totally unprofessional. The Respondent said he had urinary issues at the time (that Denhollander was a patient) and he has also had hermia issues in the past, but he has had hernia surgery. The Respondent said there was no ulterior motive or sexual gratification when treating his patients."

Why it's interesting: A number of plaintiffs say that Nassar appeared to be sexually aroused while performing intravaginal treatments.

6. Nassar on the importance of trust between doctors and patients.

From the report: "The Respondent said if he can't trust the patient anymore, then he cannot continue treating patients. The Respondent said he sympathizes with his patients; he knows he is 'right there.' The Respondent said 'why didn't they (the patients) complain at the time?' The Respondent said the he has stopped treatment before because of body language. The Respondent said the body reaction is quicker than a verbal reaction. The Respondent said he will react to his patient's response."

Why it's interesting: Most of the patients -- who were teenagers or in their early 20s at the time the alleged abuse occurred -- say they didn't complain directly to Nassar. However, a number say they complained to others, such as MSU coaches and trainers, and were told Nassar was providing legitimate medical treatment.

7. Nassar said he could not return to the MSU sports-medicine clinic because of the allegations against him.

from the report: Nassar "said he feels he cannot go back to the clinic after everything that has happened (accusations by former patients against him)."

Why it's interesting: Nassar was suspended by MSU after Denhollander filed her complaint in late August. However, at the time of the interview, she was one of only two people alleging abuse and the Indianapolis Star had yet to publish the first story linking Nassar to sexual abuse of patients. 

Nassar was fired by MSU in late September.

8. Tensions between USA Gymnastics and Nassar went back for years, according to Nassar.

From the report: "The Respondent said he's gotten into arguments with the president of USA Gymnastics over medical care issues. The Respondent said the President of USAG tried to force him out over a three-year period."

Why it's interesting: Nassar's decades of volunteer work with USA Gymnastics, the oversight organization for the sport, made him in famous in the gymnastics and sports-medicine worlds. Starting in 1996, Nassar was the organization's chief medical doctor and he also was the team doctor for the national team, accompanying U.S. gymnasts to four Olympic games.

The USAG has said it cut ties with Nassar in 2015 after an athlete's complaint about Nassar's medical treatments.