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Peter Saunders on the George Pell Charges

ABC - 7.30
June 30, 2017

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2017/s4694038.htm

[with video]

Transcript

LEIGH SALES, PRESENTER: Peter Saunders is a member of the Papal Child Abuse Commission. It advises the Catholic Church on how to better deal with abuse allegations and victims.

To give us a bit more context about this issue within the church and the significance of the Pell charges, Peter Saunders joined me from London.

Peter Saunders, a priest being charged with sexual offences is nothing unique. Why is this case making such an impact?

PETER SAUNDERS, VICTIM ADVOCATE: I think this is a massive story because there has certainly has never been anybody of the seniority and the position within the Vatican having been charged before, so this is huge and unlike many other places around the world where there have been accusations against very senior clerics, but the power of the church, sometimes the local or the corruption of local politicians and, of course, the power of money, has resulted in clerics not actually being charged, which is an outrage and I can give examples, but I think credit to Australia and to the Victoria Police for doing their job.

LEIGH SALES: You said that this is the first time somebody of this seniority has been charged. Do you mean with sexual assault offences or have there been other cases that involve say criminal charges in other matters?

PETER SAUNDERS: I am not aware of any cardinals, certainly any cardinals with positions within the hierarchy of the Vatican having ever been charged with any kind of crime in the past, so I think this is a unique occurrence.

LEIGH SALES: You mentioned that there had been some other high-profile cases where accusations have been made, can you give us a bit of a context historically as to how many there have been and what has traditionally has been the Vatican's attitude towards these kind of allegations?

PETER SAUNDERS: Well, to start with, the last question first - the Vatican, the church generally, are extremely reluctant to ever accept that anybody from within their ranks could commit these kinds of crimes.

In the face of the reality, which is that we know and as a member of the Papal Commission still, I hear from people all around the globe who are telling me about things that are going on and the inaction of the church.

There are probably too many cases to actually mention, but one that I would specifically mention because it is out there in the public arena already is the case of the Bishop of Bruges, Vangheluwe, who in Belgium who some years ago admitted to being an abuser, should have faced criminal charges, but because of protection and the power of the church within Belgium, all that happened to him was that he resigned as Bishop of Bruges and remains a Bishop of the church having admitted that he actually committed these vile crimes and he's, as I say, he's not an exception but he is one example that I can cite.

LEIGH SALES: Why is it that the Catholic Church hierarchy seems to continually or regularly have a problem with this issue and this disconnect with the public, in terms of the broader community's zero tolerance of child sex abuse and in particular any sort of cover-up or excuse for it?

PETER SAUNDERS: I can't explain the behaviour of the institution or church. It behaves in some ways like many other institutions and, as you know, we are having an independent inquiry akin to your royal commission in this country, looking at the institutions in the UK that have failed in the past and have allowed abuse to occur, including the churches here.

But in the case of the Catholic Church, clearly it is an institution that has for various reasons attracted far too many unsavoury people into its ranks and once they are into its ranks, they close those ranks and they protect their people and, of course, the church has immense power around the world, as well as immense wealth.

LEIGH SALES: Pope Francis hasn't been in that position for a particularly long time, does he approach mark any sort of break with the past?

PETER SAUNDERS: Well, as you know I met with Pope Francis three years ago and I had great hope that there was going to be significant and serious change and all I can really detect is minimal change.

The Pope has been very good and he's an extremely good person on the sort of public relations side. He has said some very encouraging things.

He's talked about zero tolerance of abusing priests but then he as also said some incredibly contradictory things to that and made quite disparaging remarks about victims. I am thinking particularly his remarks about the people in Chile who were protesting against the clerics down there who are known to have abused.

So I think he is in some ways a Pope of contradictions. He says some very good things about certain things, but his actions don't seem to have followed and, of course, since the Papal Commission has in effect lost its two survivors, ie Marie Collins who resigned recently and myself who is still unbelievably on a leave of absence, I think that the Papal Commission is severely wounded and certainly in terms of victims and survivors around the world, I think it has very little credibility now and very little trust in it.

LEIGH SALES: The George Pell matter is obviously very notable here in Australia because Cardinal Pell has such a high-profile, but is it likely to capture attention elsewhere?

PETER SAUNDERS: I think this case will capture attention around the world. The church encircles the world and, in fact, the charging of Cardinal Pell was on the main BBC News headlines first thing this morning when I got up.

So, it certainly it is making waves around the world, as we speak.

LEIGH SALES: Peter Saunders, thanks very much for your insights.

PETER SAUNDERS: Thank you.

 

 

 

 

 




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