UNITED STATES
Catholica (Australia)
Mark Day: Do you agree with the Swiss theologian Hans Kung who asserts that Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI, by opposing the teachings of the Second Vatican Council, created a schism in the Catholic Church?
Matthew Fox: Yes, absolutely. A council can trump a pope. A pope can’t trump a council. That’s good theology. What is clear is that these last two popes have broken with every major position the council authorized, including the power of national episcopacies to choose their own bishops, the role of the laity, ecumenism, the renewal of the liturgy, and the movement toward social justice. The Vatican is in schism. Catholics faithful to principles of the Council are not in schism.
Mark Day: You compare today’s church’s hierarchy and the Vatican to a “burning building.” You urge people to salvage only the essentials. What are they?
Matthew Fox: The greatest treasure the church is good people: Fr. Bede Griffiths, Dorothy Day, Meister Eckhart, Julian of Norwich, and so on. We don’t need to travel with basilicas on our backs. We only need are backpacks. The mystics and the prophets—how they did it with their practices and theologies—all this is really worth keeping. We need to preserve the teachings on the sacramentality of the universe, the wisdom tradition from which Jesus comes. And, of course, the tradition of the divine feminine. It is still present In Catholicism because it is pre-modern. The church did not throw out the goddess—but adopted her as the Mary principle.
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