VATICAN CITY (VATICAN CITY)
La Croix International [France]
February 23, 2024
By Hans Zollner and Loup Besmond de Senneville
Exclusive interview with Hans Zollner SJ, one of the most credible figures involved in the Catholic Church’s effort to stop clergy sex abuse and heal its victims
“The law is not perfect in any institution,” says Jesuit priest and psychologist Hans Zollner when asked about the Vatican’s protocols to deal with clergy sex abuse.
“More broadly, the norms adopted by Rome indicate the right direction, but we currently have no mechanism to monitor their implementation,” points out the 57-year-old German, who is one of the Catholic Church’s most credible figures in fighting abuse and helping victims.
Zollner, a former member of th Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minors and currently director of the Institute of Anthropology at the Gregorian University in Rome, believes the historic summit Pope Francis called in February 2019 to deal with abuse was a major step in the right direction.
But, as he explains in this exclusive interview with La Croix’s Loup Besmond de Senneville, the rules and procedures that have been adopted since then have not been sufficiently or evenly applied at the local level.
La Croix: Five years after the organization of the Vatican summit, what’s your assessment of fight against pedophilia within the Church?
Hans Zollner: In the past five years, we have seen significant steps. At the universal level, several norms have been established, including Vox estis lux mundi, a set of rules that have been consolidated since. It requires all clerics, and men and women religious to report any type of sexual and spiritual abuse they become aware of to their superiors.
When Pope Francis asked us to organize this summit in 2019, he wanted to send a very strong signal to all Catholic leaders worldwide, whether bishops – since all the presidents of the episcopal conferences were convened to Rome – but also the heads of dicasteries of the Roman Curia and the superiors of religious congregations.
It was also about giving importance to the testimonies of the victims, and that is why we invited some to join us. This has had long-term effects. For example, a British bishop recently allowed victims to speak at his installation Mass. Five years ago, this was out of the question.
Are the norms adopted at the Vatican sufficient?
H.Z.: The law is not perfect in any institution. There are possible improvements in several areas, for example, in canon law. In a trial, the parties must have access to the trial content and know their rights. The canonical process must become more transparent.
More broadly, the norms adopted by Rome indicate the right direction, but we currently have no mechanism to monitor their implementation. In some countries, bishops have resigned following dysfunctions. In others, not.
Why are sanctions applied in one case and not in others? If we want new legislation to have a lasting and profound effect, it must be accompanied by a change in attitude.
Is it a problem of transparency?
H.Z.: No, I think that represents only part of the problem. It’s more of a problem of procedure and implementation.
What happens when a bishop is guilty of not reporting sexual abuse to Rome? Who takes care of this? Who investigates it? Who is responsible for it in Rome? And with what consequences?
Similarly, the difference in the application of these norms across the world regions is not precisely known. We have no precise data at our disposal.
Isn’t this the job of the Vatican Commission for the Protection of Minors?
H.Z.: The commission’s reports will probably allow for monitoring the actions undertaken in this area.
Are bishops sufficiently aware of the stakes?
H.Z.: Some say that abuse issues do not concern them. But on the other hand, the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith says it’s receiving case files from all over the world. So, there is a certain contradiction between these two elements.
But beyond the question of awareness of the problem, bishops face a tension. They must be both father to their priests and also their judge. This puts many of them in difficulty. The only way to move beyond this problem is to establish clear procedures in each diocese for dealing with abuse issues when they arise. This might include delegating an independent third party to manage the case file or carry out the investigation.
Finally, we constantly see that training is necessary. What should a bishop do when faced with a case? The question arises on a canonical level, in relation to victims, but also in terms of communications or dealing with convicted priests.
The Vatican published a vademecum (manual) in 2020 on the procedures to follow, but it is not always sufficient. Sometimes, bishops know in their mind what they should do, but they lack experience.
You travel around the world to raise awareness on the issue of abuse: what resistance do you observe?
H.Z.: I notice that some continue to hold up the image of a pure and holy Church where it seems inconceivable to make the slightest mistake. This leads to not admitting the reality of crimes committed by the Church’s members. It’s an image that does not correspond to the human reality of this institution nor to people’s expectations.
The People of God know very well that priests are not saints but that, like everyone else, they are sinners. Catholics can understand this, and to a certain extent, they can forgive it. On the hand, no one understands how some in the Church can claim that to be perfect and defend criminals.
Christ says in the Gospel: “Whenever you did this for the least of my brothers, you did it for me… Whenever you did not do it for one of these least ones, you did not do it for me.”
Are the victims sufficiently taken into account?
H.Z.: It is not possible to draw a general conclusion on this point. From my experience, I see that the expectations of the victims are very different from one person to another.
Some demand to be heard by Church officials, others do not. Some want financial reparations, not others. Some demand care, not others. It is therefore difficult to speak about the victims and the consideration of their concerns.
But what I can say is that we must learn to listen to them and welcome their contribution.
If there now appears to be a greater awareness of the tragedy of child criminality, that doesn’t seem to be the case yet for abuse against adults. How can we change this?
H.Z.: Regarding sexual abuse, awareness did not come all at once. In the United States, England, or Ireland, it started thirty or forty years ago.
Regarding various types of abuse committed against adults, we will probably follow the same gradual process. It will take time.